I had a big debate with Kordahi over dinner the other night about whether or not I was wasting my time with the religion v science discussion.
One of the points I made was that the “live and let live” motto that atheists have pursued over the last couple of hundred years hasn’t worked. The religious right around the world are fighting for control of our political and education systems. In supposedly “civilized” countries such as Australia, the USA and the UK, we have witnessed the rise of the Christian right political parties. They are well-funded, well-organized, vocal and forceful. They are trying to reverse the intellectual and social freedoms that were hard won by rational thinkers over the last 2000 years. And if we don’t check their rise, if we don’t prevent them from taking power, I fear that we will wake up one day to discover that we have lost those freedoms we take for granted. We will wake up in a world where believing in bronze age mythologies is deemed not only acceptable, but mandatory. I don’t want my kids to live in a country where irrational thinking is considered equal or even superior to rational thinking. The thing I think most of you forget is that for the majority of human history, that’s how it was! Anyone, like Galileo, who used evidence and rational thinking that contradicted the beliefs of the religious, could be threatened with execution. Let us not forget the Crusades, the Inquisition and the Cathars. Let us not forget the St. Bartholomew’s Day Massacre.
Let us not forget that the Bill of Rights of the Texas Constitution (Article I, Section 4) last amended on September 13, 2003 states that an official may be “excluded from holding office” if he/she does not “acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being”. Let us not forget that North Carolina’s Constitution, Article 6 Sec. 8 states “Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God….”. Let us not forget that Tennessee’s Bill of Rights: Article 9, Section 2: “No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.” Let us not forget that in the 1988 U.S. presidential campaign, George H. W. Bush said, “I don’t know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.” (source)
The good news this week in Australia was the most recent census data, which shows that the number of people classifying themselves as having “no religion” has jumped from 15.5% of the population (2001) to 18.7% (2006). (source)
It is still a frighteningly small percentage of the population (4 out of 5 adults in an educated, intelligent society, still believe that mythological, supernatural beings govern the universe), but at least it is slowly growing.
Now – for my detractors who say “you’ll never change people’s minds”, think about this – the 2.2% of the population who considered themselves religious in 2001 but no longer do – haven’t they changed their minds? Unless, of course, they are all new adults who happen to be less delusional than their parents…
And now for the video that demonstrates why Christians should be feared:
http://embed.break.com/MjkxODg2
http://view.break.com/291886 – Watch more free videos
Remember – even the warm, fuzzy Christians who don’t advocate violence, believe in the same gods this guy does. They believe in the same bible. They believe the same mythology.
oh my darwin!
that video rocks…
makes you just want to go up to him and slap him
Yeah, but in the Christians rock camp, this guy makes you wanna get down on your knees and celebrate our lord, supreme ruler of the heavens and earth – doesn’t he 🙂
http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=291953M
Incidentally, my point wasn’t that you shouldn’t go out and educate as many as you can about the things you think are significant and relevant. I agree, it’s your right and your obligation to do so.
All of the points you raise(d) are very valid and believe it or not, I left with a greater appreciation of what’s at stake.
My only criticism is that picking on the Christians (as easy and tempting as it is to do so) starts a war not a discussion. It attracts the fundamentalists and not the pragmatics. And you don’t want to be just another crazy fundamentalist who should be ignored by the masses.
Cause after meeting you, you’re not!
Crazy, yes. fundamentalist, no. 🙂
-dg
“My only criticism is that picking on the Christians (as easy and tempting as it is to do so) starts a war not a discussion.”
See that’s the thing – commentary on religious behaviour is always viewed as “an attack”. Which is ironic given religion has openly attacked scientific study and purpose since, well, it’s very beginnings when people realised that ‘God’ wasn’t the answer to every question.
Always viewed as an attack by whom? Extremists? Funny that.
interesting… I received an e-mail from the SBS Insight team saying they were looking for people to participate in their upcoming program about atheism. The first person I thought of is you! 🙂
Interested?
dek – give them my details!!!
Did you see this cam?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200706/s1945634.htm
Hey Cameron, love the show and LOL to the god hates fags guy cuss he was at my church protesting a soldiers death and the guy is a retard. I was also wondering if you could give me a list of questions to ask my dad about christianity because lately I’ve been confused about religion and stuff and I enjoyed you and the infidelity guy’s decussion a few weeks back.
PeeWee, why do you want to ask your dad questions? Unless he is claiming to be Jesus reincarnated, I’d recommend you search for your own answers. If “the truth” is important to you, the truth about how the universe works and whether or not supernatural, ghost beings rule it, then I’d recommend you start by reading Richard Dawkins “The God Delusion”, Christopher Hitchens’ “God Is Not Great” and Sam Harris’ “Letter To A Christian Nation”. Also Peter Watson’s “Ideas” to chart how human civilization got where it is today. And by all means read the old and new testament and the koran and the talmud and everything else you can get your hands on. Read, think, ask questions, think for yourself!
Marcelo, no, hadn’t seen that. I don’t them marching, as long as they don’t hurt anyone. They have a right to free speech and protest. Homophobia is just one of the many ways that Christians demonstrate that their religion teaches intolerance.
I thought the key word was “medieval” – very funny – at least there was 2.8 million of us vs a measley 1 mil of them.
Here’s the details of that insight taping. It came through an atheist meetup.com group i’m in.
Only problem for you Cam is it’s in Sydney.
“The INSIGHT program on SBS Television is looking for people to participate in a program about atheism.
INSIGHT is an hour long forum discussion program hosted by Jenny Brockie. The show goes to air every Tuesday night at 7.30pm.
We’re looking to speak to people who have converted to atheism. We’re interested in finding out what sparked the change? And, how is life different now to the way it was before?
If you haven’t “converted” as such, we’d still be interested in hearing how you came to atheism.
If you’re interested in taking part in the show please email [send email to christine.elkhoury@sbs.com.au via gmail] christine.elkhoury@sbs.com.au by Wednesday 4th July, 2007. Please include your contact details and a bit about yourself.
The INSIGHT forum on atheism will be recorded in Sydney on Monday 23rd of July, 2007. “
Honestly, I think this guy has a mental illness. This is the first time I’ve seen someone from the “God hates Fags” church speak. No kind of argument with him is going to work. It would be like me trying to convince a paranoid schizophrenic homeless man I meant recently that I wasn’t sending secret messages to the police about him through my mobile phone. Kind of reminds me of the time I stumbled into a church where Fred Nile was speaking. For all the rumours that I’d heard from some Christians saying was treated badly by the media, after hearing him in person for nearly an hour my jaw was on the floor and I couldn’t believe how generous the media had been to him. What disappoints me is that it takes atheists to call a spade a spade when it comes to despicable behaviour like this and Christians are not brave enough to call this despicable too.
18.7% might be a small percentage but you are the only “religious” grouping in the census that’s increasing in size.
Hey Cam have you ever interviewed Christopher Hitchens? Would be a great show if you could get him on.
Ok I’ll get on that, the reson I want to ask my dad questions is because sometimes we have debates about if the Bible is real and I wanted some questions to ask him to see how he replied to em.
But it’s probly better if I got it straight from the horses mouth and read the books. Thanks for the suggestions.
oops I mean reason. LOL
Chris – no, haven’t had Hitchens on yet. Still reading through his book.
PeeWee – the whole question about the bible being “real” is an important question and starts with your definition of “real”. For example, if you mean the NT and if you mean “did these things really happen”, then it is very easy to put together a solid logical argument that says “we don’t know”. Of the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, only Mark and John are considered (by most biblical historians) actual original documents (the other two are copies of Mark and another document) and John is considered “mystical”, which means “fictional”. So we are left with Mark and the author of Mark, at best, was a guy who might have been a disciple of Peter and was not a first hand witness of the events.
So we have NO first hand accounts of the supposed “Jesus” character. Nothing. No religious documents, no secular documents, no Jewish documents.
This Jewish Rabbi supposedly could raise the dead, walk on water, survive crucifixion, heal the blind, turn water into wine – and nobody at the time wrote it down. Nobody wrote a letter to their friends in another town – “Hey you should come check out this magic Rabbi dude! He’s whack!”. Nothing.
So here’s what I say – we have NO first hand evidence that Jesus ever existed. The NT is just a collection of mystical stories told by primitive Arabs living in the desert 2000 years ago. As literature, it is fascinating to read. But it isn’t history, any more than the tales of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.