My guests today are J. David Markham, my regular co-host on the much-loved Napoleon Bonaparte Podcast, and his friend of 35 years, a regular guest on this show, Doug LaFollette, Secretary of State of Wisconsin. They joined me this morning to discuss the recent US government shutdown and the forces at play behind it. If you, like me, have been trying to understand how something like this could happen in the world’s leading economic power, then I hope this conversation will shed some light on the issue. As David and Doug are both Democrats, I, being an Australian, try to throw in some counter-arguments into the conversation for balance.

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