Andrew Sullivan recently linked to this 2005 article about now-defunct American Pastor Ted Haggard.
This quote from him lends weight to my recent arguments that Christianity is incredibly violent at its very core:
“I teach a strong ideology of the use of power,†he says, “of military might, as a public service.†He is for preemptive war, because he believes the Bible’s exhortations against sin set for us a preemptive paradigm, and he is for ferocious war, because “the Bible’s bloody. There’s a lot about blood.â€
If you buy the bible as the word of god, then you have to buy its view that everyone who disagrees with you should be killed, maimed or tortured. So I don’t buy this excuse that “oh it isn’t Christianity that’s violent, it’s just a few bad apples”.
I also love this bit about how Ted built his church early on:
He staked out gay bars, inviting men to come to his church; his whole congregation pitched itself into invisible battles with demonic forces, sometimes in front of public buildings.
It puts his forced admission late last year of ice-fueled illicit gay sex into some perspective.
Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn’t necessarily make them one. Christ said,”By their deeds you will know them”. Don’t get the Old Testament & the New Testament confused as one & the same…there is a BIG difference. Christ was a pacifist.
Hello Mum. Well there’s a couple of ways to respond to your statement.
The first is that we don’t actually know what he was. He never wrote anything down. The NT is a bunch of stories passed on, person to person, and eventually written down 30 – 100 years later. That’s like me taking some of the stories Grandad’s Grandmother told him and you told me and saying it’s gospel.
Secondly, even if you do take JC’s words in the NT as being a legitimate record of what he said, it can be pretty intolerant and violent towards people who disagree with his particular point of view.
For example:
“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”
Matthew 10
And my favourite:
“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”
Luke 19
That sound like a pacifist to you?
Dude, where did you get that “quote” from the bible from? The only time I see anything like this is not in one patch as you have quoted it but as a series of quotes with bits missing in the middle, namely:
“15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. ” (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2010;&version=9;)
Perhaps from now on when you “quote” the bible, you could include a link or a reference to the sort of bible that you are “quoting” from.
And yes, saying to be “Harmless as doves” sounds awefully passive to me.
Molly
why are christians so obsessed with sex, gender and genitals.. it seems that blaming gays and lesbians is like almost a passtime and obsession for many christians. Don’t they ever worry about the real problems of the world, like hunger, poverty, war, disease , famine?
The bible is replete with admonishment about the sins of heterosexuals..in fact in old testamental times fornication and adultery was punishable by death…maybe we should reinstitute the death penalty for straight adulterers and fornicators — hmmm stoning seems like an exciting sport – just ask the muslims where stoning of adulterers is still a rather exciting public entertainment ( i think i’m gonna throw up ).
christians used to demonize jews for centuries as jesus-killers and this embolden many ordinary germans to persecute jews leading to the holocaust. Similarly centuries of demonizing and denigration of gays and lesbians and sexual minorities have embolden otherwise morally bankrupt heterosexuals to discriminate and do violence to sexual minorities. This has got to stop. Christians are deluding themselves, if they really want to obey Christ then love God with all yr heart and immediately love your neighbour as yourself ..be they gay or straight. If you cannot practise this most important of all the commandments then you have no business declaring yourself a christian irregardless of how big your church or your choir or your coffer may be !
Oh..by the way Jesus said to the rich man..give up all your worldly goods and follow me! Did i hear any ‘christians’ dare to say AMEN LOL LOL LOL
Mikhail – a child of the intelligent Universe
Evangelicals and christians in general tend to be so obsessed with sex, gender and genitals to the point that you would think that morality = sex and nothing more. Why I suppose in an evangelical’s mind a heterosexual drug dealer is ‘morally’ superior to a gay philanthropist. Christians in general are guilty of being self righteous and are constantly pretending to ‘love the sinner but hate the sin ‘ as if they can really do that -hah.!!!
May I remind them that the oft repeated mantra of the modern pharasees ‘ love the sinner but not the sin’ is not a quote from Jesus , but a glib semantic invention of some self righteous baptist minister.
Careful scholars of biblical texts who are familiar with the intricacies of ancient oriental languages are wont to not read their bias into isolated quotations.
Jesus had no problems with gays ( natural eunuchs born of the mother’s womb). If you are anti-gay or condemnatory of gay people than you are out of sync with Jesus.
This is what Jesus said:
KJV Matthew 19:12
12. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
No less an authority than Jesus said it is o.k. to be gay, and for you to accept it. Who do you wish to follow – Jesus (of Nazareth) or Jerry (Falwell).
For more detail discussion of this biblical position on the acceptance of gay people by no less an authority than JESUS – THE SON OF GOD , I refer you to this link :
http://www.hiddenmeanings.com/gaysJesus2.htm
Mikhail – a child of the intelligent Universe
Hey Mikhail, thanks for the comment! But let me remind you that NOBODY knows what Jesus actually said. We have no record of him writing anything down and NONE of the people who wrote the documents of the new testament ever knew him or saw him!
I think it’s time intelligent people stopped talking about what Jesus did or didn’t say to support our arguments. All we know is what his followers believed he said. And during the first few centuries after his death, they struggled to even agree on what amongst themselves. It wasn’t until one group of christians aligned themselves with a powerful military force that any consensus arose amongst christians as to who jesus was and what he did or said or stood for.